Dahl Stays on Toll Road Board After Deadlock
Tie goes to the incumbent, at least for now.
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City Councilman Jim Dahl will remain as San Clemente's representative on the Toll Roads board, despite his inability to win support from a majority of council colleagues, officials said.
Dahl's status had been in limbo since the City Council deadlocked on whether to renew his term on the Transportation Corridor Agencies board.
Earlier this month, two councilmen, Bob Baker and Tim Brown, voted against Dahl's reappointment, saying they disagreed with his stance on the 241 toll road extension.
After an earlier plan was shot down by the state Coastal Commission, the TCA board decided to push the 241 forward in phases, starting with an initial extension stopping at the outskirts of San Juan Capistrano.
Baker worries the phased plan is a way to build momentum for the entire project, or to have traffic dump onto Avenida Pico, a plan both Dahl and Baker oppose.
"There needs to be some dissension up there," Baker said of the TCA board.
Two other City Council members supported keeping Dahl on the toll road board. That created a 2-2 tie, with Dahl unable to vote under conflict-of-interest laws that bar officials from voting themselves into posts that pay stipends.
The council was initially unsure how to resolve the issue. The city attorney looked into the matter and said, essentially, that a tie goes to the incumbent.
Because TCA has no term limits for its members, Dahl remains in the post unless someone else on San Clemente's City Council shows interest and is chosen by a council majority, the city attorney said.
Related: Toll Road Appointment Hits Snafu
Related: TCA Board OKs First 4 Miles of Controversial 241 Toll Road Extension
Lindsey Hanson
4:45 pm on Thursday, January 19, 2012
Oh so ready to have you out of office Dahl.
Joe
9:29 am on Friday, January 20, 2012
That's stupid to have dissension for dissension's sake. Dahl has done a great job on the TCA board and reflects the will of his San Clemente constituents who want to see the 241 completed to connect to the I-5. God Speed Mr. Dahl!
Lindsey Hanson
12:27 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
conflict of interest to say the least. Dahl's turn is about to be up and we should all be celebrating
Larry Corwin
1:16 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Hi Joe and thanks for your comments.
I have a question that I hope you could help with. It appears a completion to I5 via Camp Pendleton is out for the foreseeable future.
Can you guess where the road will permanently terminate or even temporarily terminate?
Is Pico an acceptable termination?
I don't mind Jim Dahl being a representative on the TCA, I just wish he were a better representative.
Your estimate that most people want the toll road is a guess at best and can be easily challenged by those who maintain they do not want it. But with your all seeing wisdom Joe, can you tell us where it will end if I5 at Pendleton is out?
I'll give you two guesses. Ortega Highway in San Juan Capistrano or Pico in San Clemente. Can you go on the record stating which you prefer? Or can you offer another plausible alternative?
Thank you
Adam Townsend
1:36 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
The route for the planned final sections of the 241 is still under discussion; a number of options are on the table, but the original route shot down by the Coastal Commission several years ago is out.
You are correct on the Pendleton proposal. I spoke with TCA staffers several months ago and they indicated that base officials have not budged on allowing the 241 extension to run through base property.
As far as Dahl's position, he said at the meeting "I would lie down in front of bulldozers," to keep the 241 from ending at Pico, though he has been in favor of the road's completion, overall.
Larry Corwin
1:41 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Adam, if they were building a termination at Pico, I know a lot of people that would tie Jim Dahl down in front of that bulldozer.
But you bring up an excellent point that without any thought or planning as to where this thing will go, we really are at the mercy and thus my point about better representation.
Larry Corwin
1:36 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Adam, are you aware if San Clemente's representative to the TCA MUST be a sitting City Council member? Can City Council appoint someone other than one of it's own to represent San Clemente?
It seems to me Jim Dahl's representation has been incomplete and not all of his own doing. City Council's both past and present must take responsibility for never have developed a City policy on the toll road after the federal government denied an I 5 alignment at Camp Pendleton.
A policy does not have to state advocacy or opposition but does have to established guidelines as to what is and isn't acceptable. Seem like everyone in the city including Jim Dahl is against a Pico alignment. What about Vista Hermosa or Christianitos? What about having a permanent termination at Ortega Highway? Lots of things to ponder and without a clear city policy, we are nowhere. We will be at the mercy of the TCA without real representation.
Joe, if you are Joe Anderson, sorry I got to take a cheap shot. If your record on what people of San Clemente want is any indication, you might be the last guy this city needs gauge the will of the people.
Again sorry Joe, couldn't pass it up. Really love to hear about your ideas of where the road should or will end in San Clemente.
Joe
2:34 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
First Larry, no I'm not Joe Anderson, but I do agree with that Joe on most items, including the completion of the toll road. I think it'll eventually be completed through the northernmost part of Pendleton - where the state park is now. The lease for the park is up in 2021 (nine years from now) and with state parks closing left and right and with the federal law that requires fair market value for leased land, I doubt the state will continue to get its sweetheart "two-cents-per-year-lease" for the San Onofre State Park. I think TCA will offer to fund a new lease for the beach section of the park in exchange for allowing the road to be completed through the inland portion of the park. Win-win.
And no, I don't support a terminus at Pico.
Larry Corwin
2:45 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Thank you Joe, I really appreciate your input and information. You seem well schooled on the subject and it is a pleasure discussing this with you.
I understand the lease at the park is up in nine years and your description of the possible outcome is encouraging but I assume only prophesy at this time. Would you know or could you guess as to the strategy moving forward after the Ortega section? Will the road stay at Ortega until such time it can be completed all the way through to Pendleton or the San Mateo Camp?
And just for discussion, what will happen if the somehow the San Mateo park is preserved as is, will the road stay at Ortega?
Finally are you suggesting or hoping there will be no off ramp built in San Clemente at Pico or anywhere else? If so is it opinion or have you had discussion with other TCA members and heard the general plan?
Joe
3:15 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Larry, I am not a soothsayer and have no inside information as to what will happen over the next decade. I'm just saying that we need to keep moving the 241 toward its eventual completion. Over the next ten years as Rancho Mission Viejo gets built out and another 30,000-plus people come to South Orange County, there will be increased pressure to complete the roadway.
Who knows what will happen if the state comes up with the millions necessary to preserve San Onofre. Maybe the roadway will connect to Cristianitos and commuters can take Cristianitos to the I-5.
All I know is that sticking our heads in the sand is not going to solve the traffic problem.
Larry Corwin
3:18 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
I hear you Joe and thanks for the info. Just curious, but who owns that land where the camp is? The state is leasing it from who? Feds?
Joe
3:32 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Feds... That's Camp Pendleton land. They lease that and the beach to the state for two cents annually ($1.00 for a fifty year lease).
Larry Corwin
4:21 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Interesting and informative, thank you.
jeff s
10:20 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
The corrupted TCA fouled by bribery and corersion will fail in the attempt to build this private toll road through environmentally protected and culturally sensitive lands. They and their corrupt/bankrupt supporters will be in lawsuits for the next 100 yrs before this abomination is built. TCA = dead end solutions for all Californians..